Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 6:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 700 left

Dead.net is announcing that Dave's Picks vol. 1 is almost gone - "We've got fewer than 700 copies left."

What's interesting for me is that this spring '77 show has been available for, what, at least a couple months now, and they haven't yet sold out the 12,000 limited edition.

Whereas the $450 Europe '72 box set sold out 7200 copies within days. (And probably many more since then.)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 24, 2012 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left/ How Much is Enough?

Great thread LiA, as well as many excellent posts. Best thread in a long time.

I think Dudley D. is spot on regarding his two points. And it is curious that if I don't have a hard copy of music I perceive my ownership/investment in it differently and less so. I wonder at what age that (in general) is not applicable?

I'm not sure about hf's point. I haven't bought any shows for the 'I was at there' factor. It's mostly for the 'I wish I was there' factor.

I think elbows three points are also right on.

For me what is the value of buying more GD? How much is enough? I am not a completist, so I have to listen to the music enough for it to have value to me. And like most/all of you I have listened to thousands of hours of GD and I doubt not much that is so far unlistened to is going to excite me very much. The only thing that would have me trembling ordering away would be '68 (Winter '68?) and I don't think they have it. If they do, what on God's Green Earth are they waiting for?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left/ How Much is Enough?

"I haven't bought any shows for the 'I was at there' factor."

Neither have I! :)
But still, like others here are saying, I think there probably is a good 'Touch-head' market left for those later-era shows. And personally, I'm glad dead.net isn't catering to it yet! If anything, I'd like to see LESS '80s releases - nothing but '68!! But I'm a niche of the niche.

God knows why they're keeping unreleased '68/69 so tightly in their clutches. Maybe they feel that era's "done" and don't want to have repetitive releases (or there are perceived SQ issues for a lot of those shows)...
They do roam all over the Dead's career for releases, so statistically, I wouldn't expect too many '60s releases. Frustrating for '60s fans, though!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left/ How Much is Enough?

LiA, do you think that they have any '68 SBD's in the vault? I'm not talking snippets (but add several snippets together and I'd be in hog heaven), but whole shows.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left/ How Much is Enough?

Check this thread:
http://www.archive.org/post/408859/david-lemieux-recap

Specifically -
Q: "Any good unheard Dark Star performances I can look forward to?"
DL: "Yeah, many, so stay tuned. There actually aren't too many - I think you've probably heard a lot of the Dark Stars that we have; but there definitely are some Dark Stars from '68, possibly '69, that you might not know or be too familiar with. It's the '68 ones that I find really interesting....that transitional era for Dark Star, from February '68 to October '68, we don't have a lot, but we do have some cool things, that personally I would like to see some more [released] - that's one of my favorite eras."

I'm not sure whether they have whole shows we don't have. (If they do a '68 release, they'd probably pick something already famous like 10/12/68.)
But I believe they probably have a lot of snippets, like the piece of 6/14/68 they put on a bonus disc - the types of things that would probably never get released unless as 'filler' to something else.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 24, 2012 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left/ How Much is Enough?

We go on and on about '68, but I can think of no other year in which I salivate over snippets.
I would happily buy a whole box set of them!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 23, 2012 8:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

It's simple math, isn't it?

77 = 71 + 6 LONG years;

72 = 71 + practice with Keith over mere months since the close of Tell's era.

IE, 72 > 77, by extension.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Feb 24, 2012 1:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I really don't get this limited release business. I mean ... why?!? I'll pick up DPs years after they're released; if they'd made them limited release, they'd have lost the sale. IMO the 5/25/77 choice is a good one, and I may be the only one here who actually likes the cover art; I think it's fun, and really have thought of it as a gift idea. Of course, if they really stick with the limited release silliness, I won't ever get a chance to decide later to give it as a b-day/Xmas gift for a Star Warsy DH. (Besides, I just don't like to be Forced :-) )

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2012-02-24 09:57:43

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Feb 24, 2012 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I suspect due to the reputation (deservedly, in my book) of the Europe tour, and the precedent of the long gone Fillmore West 69 box, some of us jumped . And at the very start, it wasn' t clear that they would offer the shows outside of the whole box . Like others have said, I don't think there is much left that would generate this level of excitement .
Two things come to mind :1, The whole trend is away form people wanting to own "things" ( not me !) , and a much lessened level of excitement/involvement that seems to follow . 2. The further we get away form the death of Garcia, the less interest . Old fans drop off, and fewer new ones get on .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

That's very true, a lot of us did have that Fillmore West 69 box in mind. (And they STILL haven't released the individual shows from that!?!) That must've accounted for a lot of the initial buying.
Also, I'm afraid to say, the collector's-item aspect. There were LOTS of multiple purchases of the E72 box for later resale, I'm sure. When people could buy up to 10 boxes, there might've been a lot fewer actual buyers...

Your points are interesting, but with caveats -
1. The trend is also towards downloading & getting music for free - combined with the fact that we already HAVE most these shows for free, that would keep the sales interest pretty low, maybe confined to those who really WANT nice CD packages.
2. I'm not sure about lessening interest in the Dead. My perspective is different since I'm a post-Garcia fan who bought up all the live releases once I got interested. (There were a lot fewer then, though!) But you have to notice, they certainly haven't lessened live releases in recent years due to dropping demand, so they must be happy enough with the sales.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Feb 24, 2012 2:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

To bounce this around some more , I relatively easy access to free downloads, of these shows in sometimes stellar sound, makes the cds less of a must even to the hardcore fan . I recall, the comments about the declining sales of the DPs due to the downloading . I am sort of an "audiophile" ,who appreciates the sound quality of the official releases , but then again there is that elite 24 bit crowd, that might be looking at downloaded sound ( depending on the source ) that is better than the cds . And to some folks mp3 is fine .
On my second point, I have some ideas, I am by no means sure on it . Sounds like a good thread topic .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: dr. flashback Date: Feb 23, 2012 11:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

A great post and great discussion. You know, if the folks at GD Productions would just read the posts here once and awhile, I think it would give their marketing strategy some hints, no? LOL
Is this Dave's Pick the 5/25/77 show? Sorry, I don't keep up with the releases anymore. If so, the 5/25 show was one of the first 1977 show I got, oh, way back 12 years ago or more.
One of the early SBD's, I think # 13399. it sounded fantastic to me back then, not to mention the recent Miller remasters.

My point being - that the majority of Dead fans who have been trading and DL shows for 15-20 years now (the internet age) we are pretty picky audiophiles. We are accustomed to shows redone with Soundforge, etc, patched, de-hissed, and so on. So - to a great degree, releasing a remastered vault show that everyone plus my grandmother has had (in great quality) for years isn't a real bright idea.

My God what a show, though!! The second set is what they're gonna be playing at the pearly gates when we all get to heaven. One of my fav 1977, I never get tired of hearing it.

I think the economy being what it is, and the less than moderate success of the Dave series, they're gonna have to come up with some new ideas. Like some of you said -

1. More 80's or 90's shows. The guys that went to these shows are becoming geezers !! Sorry, LOL.

2. More unreleased/non-circulating shows. From 1968 to 1989, there are still plenty of SBD's that have never seen the light of day.

3. Creative box sets, 2-3 night runs. Whole shows get expensive. I prefer those of course, but a compilation of 2 or 3 nights wouldn't be bad. I think sticking to a 3 to 6 CD release is best. Smaller set, lower price. You can get a lot of music on 6 CD's.

4. Run a "fan's picks" contest. The show that gets the most votes gets released (within reason).

5. I still think that the 1971 Spring Manhattan center shows and the Dec felt Forum shows would sell. Untapped possibilities. As is a lot of 1970.

And I wonder sometime if the folks at GDP really realize just how many of us there are with thousands of high quality boots in our little bungalows?? Surely they must. But IDK??

cheers,
Dr. Flashabck

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Feb 24, 2012 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Rhino could have David Lemieux hire Charlie Miller and me for a new project. Not sure how many "bases" Rhino would like to attempt to cover, but the basic idea is to do the 1973 RFK Stadium project. Is it possible that Rhino is sitting on any films from this weekend?

Rhino could be the first commercial media outfit in the 21st century world to roll out a multi-DVD-type "single-venue box" release that includes:
• 2 SBDs, 2 MTXs, 2 DTSs, and 2 AUDs
• interviews with the tapers and filmmakers
• interviews with the recording engineers
• interviews with fans who attended this venue
• additional photos and films
• additional venue documentation such as PDFs
• SBDs, MTXs, DTSs and Videos - available for download

The audio tapes of these shows need to be baked, transferred again, pitch corrected again, and remastered again. Photos and films need to be collected to see what we have to work with. Getting the Allman Brothers Band involved with this project would take it to its proper place in history.

Rhino could be the first outfit in the world to successfully bring tapers into the fold on a commercial release without tarnishing anything.

discussion with Charlie Miller
http://www.archive.org/post/407323/stories-about-taping-in-the-60s-and-70s

story about taping Grateful Dead at RFK Stadium in 1973
http://www.archive.org/post/309958/june-9-and-amp-10-tapers-gauntlet-reveals-an-orgy-of-sound

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 25, 2012 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

A very good ideaa, Monte. You should contact David Lemieux directly/in person. I really haven't checked it out, but is this GD Forum the largest on the Internet? I wonder how many Rhino people and record executives monitor this forum, or do any former GD members lurk here

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snori Date: Feb 25, 2012 10:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

On Point 3. I'd rather not have compilations, it was a drawback with the Road Trips. I'd be very happy with small box sets of 3 night runs like the releases from Winterland '73 and '77.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 24, 2012 5:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Excellent thoughts. Fully agree on the idea of releasing single venue runs.

Also, why not develop a purely downloadable series? They could be released in 256 kbps MP3 for one price or the option of an easily replayed lossless download (going through Windows Media Audio Lossless for example) for a bit more. Would be one hell of a lot cheaper to produce for the powers that be and (you'd think) sold for less than a hard copy CD, thus greatly increasing the buying audience. I know that price of buying the CD sets is an issue for me (OK, mostly for the wife), especially for these bigger compilation releases and having access to a digital library of individual shows in great quality at reasonable costs (say, $10 a show) would get me to buy more.

Just my thoughts.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Finster Baby Date: Feb 24, 2012 5:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

More 80's or 90's shows. The guys that went to these shows are becoming geezers !! Sorry, LOL.

HEY!! I resemble that remark.... you bastage!! :) ;)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 24, 2012 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

The list of 13 Oprah's Picks (if I could find it) would make for some FINE releases

I found his first 12, in order >>
10/29/85
2/24/74
10/2/77
2/22/69
8/3/82
6/14/76
10/31/91
9/28/72
10/4/80
6/22/73
7/7/89
5/15/70

This post was modified by rastamon on 2012-02-24 16:23:06

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 25, 2012 8:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: another Lemieux interview

There's a recent interview with Dave Lemieux here:
http://www.jambands.com/features/2012/01/10/from-road-trip-to-dave-s-picks-tales-from-the-grateful-dead-archivist

He talks mostly about the selection process for the series, and talks a bit about how they do patches when there are SBD cuts. Page 3 of the interview is of particular interest for this thread, since he makes it clear their plan is to keep releasing shows at the same rate indefinitely.

And I noticed this especially:
"We wanted to start with something that a lot of people love. We will get to some ’67, ’68 with the new series, but we didn’t feel that we wanted to start with that because it isn’t an era that everybody loves. Believe me, I love it and people who do love it are absolutely in love with that stuff but there are people who just, I don’t know, that for whatever reason just aren’t too keen on it or maybe enough has been released. So, we just figured we’d start with [a '77 show since] a lot of people love 1977."

One thing that's sad for me was that in older interviews, he mentions things like, "One of my favorite releases was Dick's Picks Vol. 22, from Lake Tahoe in 1968, and it is NOT the most popular." Or, "'68 doesn't sell well." So, if they ever do get around to '67/68, I'm pretty sure it'll be one of the famous & familiar shows rather than an unheard surprise.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jim F Date: Feb 25, 2012 11:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another Lemieux interview

"So, if they ever do get around to '67/68, I'm pretty sure it'll be one of the famous & familiar shows rather than an unheard surprise."

Yes, but if you subscribe to purchase every release for the next 10 years, maybe they'll throw some uncirculated version of Born Cross-Eyed as filler at the end of a disc. Or some newly discovered remix of the Dark Star single that features the lost track of Mickey farting on a snare drum.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 23, 2012 7:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

It also speak volumes about the success of the subscription series marketing strategy. Even by creating a false sense of demand with this limited edition crap they still couldn't sell more than a few thousand. I do wonder if releasing the E72 individual shows around the same time as they announced the Dave's Picks series they tipped their hand about how limited their limited edition releases really are.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ice9freak Date: Feb 23, 2012 8:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Yeah, in retrospect, Europe '72 went from "we're only doing 7,200 copies of this" to "well, that's the special one, you can still buy all the shows together" to "what the hell, let's release the individual shows" (I'm not complaining--I bought the thing and consider it money very well spent) but it was all a little... fast. So not only did they tip their hand as you say, but they've kept the market for Dead releases pretty well saturated. They'd have to find a non-circulating show to release to make any kind of a splash at this point.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 9:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

The market's been "saturated" for years - they've kept on a very regular schedule of about 6 releases a year for several years now. (Though the flood of individual E72 releases now might be cutting into deadheads' pocketbooks this year...)

They might feel that non-circulating shows wouldn't be much of a "splash" - Lemieux said once that the Feb 68 Lake Tahoe release didn't sell well.
I think, for them, show quality takes precedence over what's circulating (at least, so they say) - the procedure seems to be, pick a year that hasn't been done in a while, and choose from a shortlist of several top shows. It's very rare that something non-circulating can slip in there; generally when they find something new & overlooked in the Vault & get excited about it.

I just wonder if there's a maximum number of potential buyers for ANY show, or if, for the general public, the year even matters that much. Will a '74 show sell faster than a '77? Would a '90 outsell them both? Or is the ceiling the same for almost anything? Sales mysteries...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: high flow Date: Feb 23, 2012 10:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Interesting point.

I think it's very possible 90's shows could outsell 70's shows. Simply due to the sheer size of the live audiences of that decade.

The "I was there" factor cannot be overlooked. The reviews on this site reflect that phenom to some extent. IMO, there is much more "I was there"-ing in reviews of shows from the 1990's than any other era.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 23, 2012 10:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

SO, should they strike a deal with DSO to double package the original GD show with the DSO show that someone saw last week? jboy liner notes for limited editions?

I was told to expect an email - what happened?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Feb 24, 2012 4:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I think that is absolutely it and if their marketing people have any chops at all this should be obvious. Not only is that where the numbers are (people who saw them in the 90's), that demographic is fast approaching the age where sitting at home getting nostalgic for their rock and roll days becomes a major life activity - geezerhood, precisely. There's your market.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 11:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I thought of that too - I agree lots of people would buy a '90s show just because "I saw them that year!"

And yet, there haven't been many '90s releases, compared to all the '70s ones. I'm sure lots of folks are asking them to release more '90s stuff, too - that was practically the first thing brought up in Lemieux's last videocast.
They do try to spread releases around different years, though.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: gratefuldiver Date: Feb 24, 2012 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I don't know how successful it was from a sales perspective, but Pearl Jam released CDs of what seemed like every other show for a couple years...years in which PJ were *not* in their prime. I like Pearl Jam, and I've heard one or two of those CDs (borrowed from people who went to that specific show). And I can't imagine anyone buying one for any other reason. Shoots, look how many 5-star reviews are posted on IA for bad-to-mediocre GD shows from the 90s simply because the reviewer attended the show. I think that High Flow (not to be confused with Even Flow) is onto something. This could be the next big move for Rhino: The 90s Series. Heaven help the fools!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Not to start a fight with EVERYONE that's agreed thus far, but I think the simple facts DO matter.

We need the data on "I was there..." vs "is it ANY good?"

My strongly held view is the 90s shows are so bad that there isn't a sustainable market, and in fact, this thread largely supports it (the opening premise).

Under the assumption that you milk it til it's completely dry, they will eventually try everything, but I won't be surprised in latter era shows continue to be in the minority.

I know that all the folks I turned on to the DEAD sometimes ask for ones they went to, but they rarely if ever BUY one...once they listen to the "free one" the voice of Fozzy Bear (thanks, SDH) is too much for them...

Well, sample size of six, and counting (yes, P value fans, I ignore any exceptions to my rule).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: high flow Date: Feb 28, 2012 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"I was there" always muddies the water when it comes to evaluating "is it any good". That is why so many average-to-poor '90's shows have 5-star ratings in the archive.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 28, 2012 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Damn--for a minute I thought you were Rob sneaking in a post WAY down the Big Board...

;)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 24, 2012 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I agree (shudder). For the folks who went to shows in the 90's, not many became so enamored with the band that they are eagerly sufing the 'net hoping for news of the latest release. There are exceptions, and many of them have found their way to this sad repository of wasted brain cells, but I feel the number of folks who would actually put down money on these shows is shrinking in direct proportion to the speed at which their memory of the shows they did see also fades. If they had been able to release the shows immediately after they were played (like many bands do now), they would have made a killing (mainly bacause it seemed that the finacial liquidity of audiences rose fairly quickly in the latter years). This creates a sticky situation for the folks at Rhino. Expense of creating and distributing a release vs. size of target audience. I think they figured that Europe 72 had the widest range of potential buyers (along with amazing source material), being one of the best known tours, but now how do they gauge the marketplace? Would it be profitable to put together a full 77 set? What is the best way to pinpoint shows that equal sales?. The recent membership releases seem to be an attempt to cast as wide a net as possible, trying to satisfy as many folks as possible by offering a wide range of shows. Tough call for the folks that hold the key.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2012-02-24 18:51:49

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 24, 2012 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"My strongly held view is the 90s shows are so bad that there isn't a sustainable market"

While i don't listen to them as often any longer there were some very good shows in '89-'90 and I think the Without A Net release is still an excellent live compilation from that era. However when i first found this place, the only show that i immediately sought out from that release was 3-29-90. I didn't feel the need to grab every show represented on that disc. This is in contrast to the more famous runs from the Fillmore East '71, Fillmore West '69 and Europe '72.

So i think single shows from an era will sell about the same and the demand from any era is not all that different. However those special runs seem to only be in your era and a few months beyond.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Yeah, it's funny, but one old friend with which I have re-connected is a huge "any LIVE fascimile is adequate" (ie, DSO/Furth/Phil&Friends/etc), just admitted the other day "hey...those disks you sent of 68, they really were outstanding, and 71?! Damn..." blah, blah, blah; the friend went on to say, "I haven't listened to the post 77 shows since..." (she initially wanted a copy of every show we went to, or she went to, after I stopped, which meant 77 thru late 80s...I directed her here to access this handful of shows, BTW).

Hmm--maybe Bob would prefer it if I just shut up about the early era; I may be single-handedly narrowing the market.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 24, 2012 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

While there may be many things you can do with one hand, I doubt affecting the market is one of them.



(I figure its been too long without some prepubescent innuendo)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

The way I figure it, with how little I have to actually contribute here, after the approximately 5 substantive posts are accounted for (of the 10,000 +), it's ALWAYS time for...yes, "prepubescent innuendo"

Rob?

This one has your name all over it...





[damn...I just can't move him off that even 6000!?]

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 24, 2012 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Robs at 6000? looks like time for a bad darkstar..no, the worst of is no phun. Think I'll watch a weird movie, Naked Lunch, William Tell plays an off hand role and missus ungratefully dead - ow

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 24, 2012 5:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"I just wonder if there's a maximum number of potential buyers for ANY show, or if, for the general public, the year even matters that much."

I think this is exactly the issue and the maximum number is not very big. I think some people will be more drawn to one year vs. the next, however for any given year the number ends up being about the same. I think that is what the subscription series for the last volume of Road Trips and now for Dave's Picks is telling you. There is a very small group that buys everything (i did not purchase the subscription and my Mosque show is stamped with a number around 7000 so that tells you about what the upper limit for subscription sales could be) and a larger group that is more selective but sales are probably not that far off from show to show.

However this does not really get to your original question. I think the answer to why E72 sold so much faster than Dave's Pick 1 or the DP subscription is that overall this remains a niche market that is not bringing many new fans so the single shows are nice but as you say we already had them and in this case we already had a copy that was almost as good as the release. So the only way to really sell something in a niche market is to appeal to the very core of the niche. Seems to me they have done this successfully on two occasions and there are a lot of similarities between the two items.

1. Both were limited edition releases of a famous run of shows.
2. Both were mastered from multi-track recordings and what circulated from these shows were primarily 2-track sbds.
3. Both runs of shows were famous because they were the basis of the 2 live albums that probably turned more people into deadheads than any other event until the popularity of In The Dark.

So while i agree that more people went to shows in the late '80s and '90s, there are no "events" like Fillmore West '69 or Europe '72 during that era. Therefore all you are left with are single shows releases that will probably sell just like the ones from May '77.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Feb 24, 2012 6:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

maybe i should've read your post first. I said essentially the same thing, only you phrased my thoughts so much better.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Actually there's at least one '90s "event" - I think a box of the Nassau 1990 shows is pretty much inevitable, and will do very well. The "Formerly the Warlocks" set from '89 seemed to make a little splash.

Dead.net does seem to be angling for the "collector's item" aspect, first with bonus discs, then with limited editions. Supremely annoying...

The various copies of 5/25/77 on the Archive have over 150,000 streams/downloads, so clearly the number of people who want to BUY even a "classic" show is just a small fraction in comparison.

That said, since many of the people on this forum are "the core of the niche," we may not be representative of the true Dead market. Put another way, 11,000 people who are NOT on this forum bought 5/25/77...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Smerdyakov Date: Feb 23, 2012 7:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

At this stage in the game, there's just no way that single show vault releases(of shows already in circulation) will ever be able to come remotely close to generating the type buzz surrounding the Europe'72 box.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 9:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Well, the Europe 72 box sold out within 4 days, so there was hardly time for hype to build - whatever "buzz" surrounded it was what buyers brought to it, and the reputation E72 already has. (Those shows were all in circulation too, and some already released.)

I agree that the box was way more exciting than any single release would be (except perhaps a Veneta CD/DVD combo; Cornell, no way) - but, as many people here can attest, there's a big difference between "wow, that's an exciting box!" and "I've got to put down $450 for it right away!"

I wonder what would happen if, instead of this '77 show, they'd announced a limited-edition "May '77: Every Show" box. Instant sellout?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Feb 24, 2012 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

May 77 box set wouldnt sell out immediately, if sell out at all.

Theres something special about the early stuff that makes it more necessary to acquire. I think the fact that euro 72 was multi track helped greatly. If there was a release for may 1977 like there was for euro 72 way back, then maybe a different story. Part of that massive box set selling out was having fans who've listened to europe 72 80 million times over the past 30-40 years and having some kind of attachment or relationship with this music. I think the same could be said for fillmore 69. But the music for both box sets is also top notch stuff so who wouldnt want it. I would've got the euro 72 box if i had the money.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Feb 24, 2012 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

May 77 box set wouldnt sell out immediately, if sell out at all.

Theres something special about the early stuff that makes it more necessary to acquire. I think the fact that euro 72 was multi track helped greatly. If there was a release for may 1977 like there was for euro 72 way back, then maybe a different story. Part of that massive box set selling out was having fans who've listened to europe 72 80 million times over the past 30-40 years and having some kind of attachment or relationship with this music. I think the same could be said for fillmore 69. But the music for both box sets is also top notch stuff so who wouldnt want it. I would've got the euro 72 box if i had the money.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Smerdyakov Date: Feb 23, 2012 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Exceptions: Vaneta, Barton Hall, and maybe a few others...